Mijn reacties en de antwoorden

Oliane Roos Dhra asks Gabor: “Is it all our parents fault?” and Gabor replies: “Did my mother create the Second World War? …. There is no end to the blame game…” In order to heal the pain that has been done to us the child in us MUST blame the parent(s). Alice Miller wrote 13 books about it and she is right. Gabor is not fully on the child's side and has remained trapped in his early childhood confusion, guilt feelings and fear. Of course his mother did not invent war, but a child knows nothing about that. A child ALWAYS focuses on their own parents and it is THOSE old authentic feelings of that very little child that we once were that we MUST direct towards those who made us suffer. Especially our anger and hatred. A child is born with the expectation that the parents will fulfill his needs and protect him and it can’t think of anything else.

S N When the child grows older they can learn to see their parent in bigger scheme of things. A mature person can look at their parents faults with empathy and that could speed his own healing. Blaming the parent on the other hand will keep him stuck where he is.

Oliane Roos @S N  Dear S N, I don't agree with you but that's fine with me. In the healing process we must help the child within us direct the powerful, vital feelings as anger and rage towards the parents. Because the child couldn't do that than. What you say brings us back to the denial of cruelty. Besides, we cannot love the child we once were and the same time love our abusers. In the process of healing the only one who deserves our compassion and empathy is that little child in us.

S N @Oliane Roos  depends on kind of ‘abuse’ you are talking about. I was referring to the general example by Gabor where there’s emotional friction in the house that kids get caught in middle of. Choices his mother made due to circumstances out of her control that affected him deeply. Lot of us have to deal with those type of issues. Parents with depression etc.

Oliane Roos @S N  I do not agree with you that what I am takling about depends on the kind of abuse. The child doesn't understand, and can't understand that the parent can't protect him and don't satisy his needs because that is out of her control. To understand the suffering of the child we once were we must fully side with the child in us and help him/her to direct all the repressed feelings and needs towards the parent(s) and not protect them.

Alv Odin You are the one who is confused about Gabor's thinking..he just doesn't play the game of praising and blaming. That's it, In a nutshell.

Oliane Roos @Alv Odin  I have the impression from your words that you have not emotionally understood what I have written. And maybe you need the blame (“You are the one …”) because my words could have hit your defense.

S N  @Oliane Roos  it’s fine to not agree. Child doesn’t understand but the adult does. As an adult directing my anger and rage towards a parent who suffered with depression and had inadequate capacity to fulfill their duties doesn’t serve me anything besides a prolonged state of misery and pity party for myself. Life happens …as adults we have capacity to see our parents with compassion understand the reasons for their limitations…that frees us mentally to pursue our own higher purpose in life. For our own good it’s better to not marinate in anger .. I agree it’s helpful to understand what in our childhood contributed to some of our negative traits and that awareness and healing is necessary to become a better human.

Oliane Roos @S N  Thanks for your reply. I do not agree with what you are telling me. We cannot get a grip on the abuse we experienced as a child in one go. That is often a long process. Anger and feelings of hatred are a logical consequence of what we had to endure silently for years as children. If we don't allow ourselves to allow and relive these feelings every time they arise, these feelings will take a different path and endanger our health and even our lives. With the experience, these intense feelings will disappear over time. It seems that you are afraid of these intense feelings and withhold your anger from your parents that you still protects. I don't mean that we should physically go to our parents and tell them how we suffered and how angry we feel. Then again we would risk being hurt by their misunderstanding. We need to access ALL of our feelings to live a liberated life and not protect our abusers. And if we do not protect our parents anymore (is the perspective of the child) and remain loyal to the true feelings of the child we once were, then a new, (adult) value judgment arises about the parents of our past. That new perspective could include, for example, understanding why they harmed us in their ignorance and their own repressed childhood. But signals that that relationship with the parents has not been purified and the perspective of the child has become fixed, we can see, for example, also with therapists, when it is said: 'I was not abused, they loved me, they did the best they could, anger is a false power or secondary emotion' and so on. That is another explanation the child they once were gave to the cruel treatment he received. Then one is stuck in fear, pity, guilt, expectations and unlived anger and hatred and is not a matured perspective.

Ann Marie Knapp I think it's a balance. We often idolize our parents in our early years because they were supposed to know how the world worked and to make our lives better, encourage growth, reinforce us for our hard earned achievements and supported us when we encountered our failures. Failures teach us to grow. However, this assumes we have parents equipped to really be present and prepared for life and that, they will put our needs above theirs. The truth is parents are human beings with their own childhood issues and may or may not be so unconditional in their love and acceptance of us. Parents are people who reared us or maybe biologically produced us and this may or may not have been planned or desired. We place parents on a pedestal that is unrealistic and may not be deserved. I had wonderful parents who loved me beyond measure, but who both had their own dysfunctions, addictions, and ways of coping that often left me feeling incredibly insecure or alone from others. I don't blame them for this. They didn't know any better. They provided a nice middle class home where I had the basics and they put me through undergraduate school and my Master's degree. They also covered my medical, dental care, and did best they could to help me. My own issues with being a workaholic, some one prone to anxiety and depression, and need to win my Dad's favor fueled my devotion to academics and becoming the kind of person my Dad would be proud of. That wasn't all his fault nor mine. I see my Dad now as a person who did the best he could with what he knew. My mother was the love of my life and her death has been devastating for me. Working through all the defenses that no longer work now. It has taken several traumatic experiences and life events to force me to this point. Dr. Mate has some of the answers and directions I've been looking for and I'm so damn grateful to him.

Oliane Roos @Ann Marie Knapp  Dear Ann Marie. You write: “I had wonderful parents who loved me beyond measure, but who both had their own dysfunctions, addictions, and ways of coping that often left me feeling incredibly insecure or alone from others. I don't blame them for this. They didn't know any better” What you say that your parents are beyond blame is the logic of repression. But your body knows the truth. I hope that one day you can feel your justified anger without guilt feelings or pity with your parents. Alice Miller wrote in From Rage to Courage: "A child can't live without the illusion of loving parents; the adult can if he wants to" I am glad to read that Gabor Mate gave you some of the answers and directions you needed.

UnicornUniverse @olianeroos7186 hello thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and wisdom. I am going through cognitive dissonance and need to voice my inner child's truth, I love my parents but I wish I could love myself, I wish I could see things more clearly. I have adhd and multiple comorbidities too, so my I think my physical health and fatigue may be result of a root cause I can't remember. I wish families didn't have to suffer so profoundly. I have great compassion for my parents not have safe childhoods, but learning how to reparent myself at almost 40 is really something. I will look into those Dr. Alice books thank you so much

Oliane Roos @UnicornUniverse  Dear UnicornUniverse. We cannot love ourselves and our abusers at the same time. That is NOT possible. As a child we need the illusion that we had loving parents but as adults we no longer depend on their love; we can now give it to ourselves. And yes Unicorne, it is really something, as you say, to give ourselves the emotional nourishment we didn't get from our parents but it feels so good. I hope that Alice Millers books may be your compass and guide in this as they were to me. And give the little girl in you your understanding and love. She's waiting for you.

Vs Sm The problem is that we do not blame the parents as much as we blame ourselves and do not realize it. How many times you told yourself after you lost that you could've done something else or different to win? Same happens in the very early childhood when we cannot protect ourselves and nobody is there to do it for us. We all need to forgive ourselves for our helplessness and weakness. Forgiveness means to stop the revenge, i.e. stop punishing yourself for want you were not capable of doing at that age.

Oliane Roos  @Vs Sm  Alice Miller wrote in Banished Knowledge that 'repressed unconscious hatred has a destructive effect, but the EXPERIENCED hatred is not poison, but rather one of the ways out of the trap of distortion, hypocrisy, or outright destruction. And that one becomes - honest - healthy when one stops feeling guilty and spares the perpetrators, when one finally dares to see and feel what they have done'

Vs Sm  @Oliane Roos  Open hatred to others means hidden hatred to yourself for letting this happen to you. If you love and understand yourself, there is no room for hatred in any shape, and you no longer need to waste your life on hating anyone.

Oliane Roos  @Vs Sm  Your reaction seems to me far from insight in the repressed anger and rage, even hatred from the child we once were. Most of the time it is fear and guilt feelings that blocking sight towards the truth.

Vs Sm  @Oliane Roos  Everything starts and ends within ourselves. Everything is about how we feel and perceive. Nothing else matters: truth, guilt, etc., cause all these things are subjective.

Joaquim Mendes I admire your patience and persistence in trying to explain a truth that is only knowable to one who has truly healed. But I fear you are trying to explain the colour red to the blind. I cannot claim to see things as clearly as you do, to have healed as much as you have, because I do still at times try to excuse my parents failures, which traumatised me. However, I look at my own children and my own failures, which have traumatised them, and take full responsibility for my actions. Yes, I was not totally conscious of the effects my actions would have on them, but it was ME who did it to them, not my parents nor my grandparents nor anyone else. In the same way my parents ARE responsible for the harm they caused me. And I repeatedly make this clear to my children and encourage them to feel their helplessness, anger and hatred at me. After a bit of healing one finally realises that, contrary to what most believe, it is NOT the adult that can excuse the parents' faults because they can now better understand the parents, but rather the wounded child that excuses them. When the true adult arises through true healing, a veil is lifted from the eyes and they really understand. Now they can place responsibility with whom it belongs and finally feel the justified helplessness, anger and often hatred towards their parents. They no longer need to fear having these feelings because they know that, unless they express them (which as you say is usually not helpful), they cause no harm to their parents, even if they did, as adults they no longer depend on their parents physically or emotionally so they need not fear for their lives as a child would, and finally, borne out of their adult experience they know that no feeling lasts forever when allowed to be felt, so the helplessness, anger and hatred eventually subside.

Oliane Roos  @Joaquim Mendes  Dear Joaquim, Thank you for your kind, clear and conscious response. It shows insight into the emotions and feelings of the child you once were and are not afraid of your truth. Your words tell you that you understand and feel how you suffered as a little boy at the hands of your parents and that by feeling your anger you can heal yourself. That you sometimes try to excuse them, as you say, can tell you something about guilt feelings or fear that prevents your indignation and anger from being fully experienced and tend to protect them (is the child's perspective). You also write that you feel responsible for your children's suffering from your repressed childhood. That shows respect for the truth and the dignity of your children. But, if you say that you 'repeatedly make it clear to your children and encourage them to feel the helplessness, anger and other feelings' then I think you are trying to 'fix' them and then, without being aware of it, we impose our needs on our children. Our apologies and sincere remorse are enough for them not to repeat the behavior of their parents when they have children of their own. Children need us to answer openly and honestly, questions they have and no more than that. I'm not quite sure what you mean when you say ‘it's usually not helpful to tell our parents about our feelings.’ Because that's not what I mean. As a child we couldn't reach our parents but if, now that we are adults, they are open to us and really want to listen to us, and we feel that need to express ourselves in that way, but now in freedom, it depends on what is satisfying for you. You further say: “After a bit of healing one finally realizes that, contrary to what most believe, it is NOT the adult that can excuse the parents' faults because they can now better understand the parents, but rather the wounded child that apologize them ” Can you explain to me what you mean by this?

Joaquim Mendes  @Oliane Roos  Dear Oliane, thank you for you kind words and insightful and helpful advice concerning how to deal with having wounded our own children. To answer your question, what I mean is that several readers have suggested and it is the general belief that it is childish to be angry at or hate our parents for having wounded us as children because, as the logic goes, now as adults we can see the broader picture and know that no one is perfect, our parents included. So the adult thing is to forgive them. I counter that logic by saying that that is just a more refined way of thinking of the wounded child, who must find a way to forgive their parents so as to guarantee their own survival. A true adult no longer depends on their parents physically nor emotionally and, therefore, is not constrained to forgiving them. With this freedom the adult can see plainly with whom the responsibility for his wounds lie, namely with their parents, because their parents, like every person on earth, are responsible for their actions, even if they were not totally free in their actions as a result of their own wounds. Later, after having processed their feelings of anger and hate, the adult can decide whether to forgive their parents or not. As Alice Miller repeatedly said, forgiveness in itself does not lead to healing but rather the allowing and processing of appropriate feelings of anger and hate towards our parents that we had to repress as children.

Oliane Roos @Joaquim Mendes  Thank you for your clear answer to my question. Now I understand you well what you're saying: ‘it is not the adult that can excuse the parents' faults because they can now better understand the parents, but rather the wounded child that excuses them’ and I totally agree with you. You seem to understand that, as one of the few, that as a child we had to suppress our reactive anger, hatred and aggressions out of fear of losing the love of our mother (and father) and we blamed ourselves instead for having needs and desires and the child we were created illusions of love. After all, every child tends to 'bite in his own hand' instead of blaming his parents for the pain they cause, isn't it? He cannot survive the painful truth. Later, we need to see this as clearly as we can see without protecting them, by understanding the tremendous fear the child had for his parents and help him overcome that fear in order to free our anger and rage and use it to reclaim our authenticity and dignity. Usually I don't comment on social media platforms for the reason you mention. But this time I felt the need to do so because our teachers can confuse us if they have not (fully) freed themselves from their illusions and live with split emotions of anger, hatred and even death feelings, not to point out the guilty, as Gabor Mate says in a video. In that video he acknowledges that he has these split emotions and shrugs his shoulders with a laugh and says "so what?" This makes it very difficult if not impossible to really heal if the teacher spares his parents these feelings. Maybe it helps a few to take off their blinders if we dare to speak up. Don't you think?

Joaquim Mendes  @Oliane Roos  Dear Oliane, I totally agree with all you say. I find it very important to point out where our teachers still have to grow themselves or have themselves understood something imperfectly. Otherwise they become a faultless cult leader whom we idolise as a parent substitute. And that cannot lead to healing. Thank you for having had the courage to point out Gabor's split feelings.

Oliane Roos  @Joaquim Mendes  Thank you Joaquim for your thoughtful and kind replies. It was a pleasure talking to you. I wish you the best.

Joaquim Mendes  @Oliane Roos  Thank you too Oliane! The pleasure was all mine. All the best to you too

9 tales Oliane Roos Thanks for this thoughtful convo. I'm more hopeful after it, as it demonstrates there are people who can handle the raw psychological process a child must endure alone. Even among the professionals only Alice Miller seems to be the one to go to

Oliane Roos @9 tales  I'm glad the comments give you more hope that there are people out there who can deal with the terror of their childhood without dying from it. The child's greatest fear was that it would be in mortal danger if it rebelled against its parents' cruelty. But as adults, the truth doesn't kill us and is very liberating. Your response and those of others have also given me more hope that there are people out there who emotionally understand that the anger and rage that the child we once were felt toward its parents but had to repress out of fear, later must direct to the parents so that our wounds can heal. That means blaming ones parents. And I agree with you that, as far as I know, Alice Miller is the only one to go to that is a true Knowing witness for a person. Someone who is fully on the side of the child and expresses her indignation at the horrors we endured as children. We must not be misled by people who have a non-judgmental attitude towards the cruelty inflicted on the child so that we can stop acting out our childhood compulsions on our children. Wish you well.

@gillianm9367 @olianeroos7186 I'm going to read the Alice Miller book you suggest but I think the answer perhaps lies in working through trauma firstly by connecting with our inner child , loving and embracing our childhood selves (and yes perhaps this may include feeling anger towards our parents) However, as mature adults we must also try to understand, accept and forgive our parents shortcomings UNLESS the abuse was so vile and terrible which for the majority of us it was not.

My younger sibling has gone down the first path only, blaming parent for everything, she is stuck in a place of anger and addiction. I was on that path many years ago but as I matured I realized that true understanding and forgiveness were the key. I am happy, healthy and thankful that I was able to care for my elderly parent, to forgive and love them in their final years. My sibling is angry, bitter, holds grudges with everyone. I genuinely believe that until she does some inner work on firstly loving the little girl she was and then gradually accepting our parent was unable to be what we needed them to be and forgive them, that she will continue on a destructive path. I have tried my best with her but she has cut me off. I was

the one always there for her. I appreciate all the views expressed here but definitely believe healing from childhood trauma is a 3 step process: 1. connect with inner child, love, value and praise your younger self. I find using childhood photos helpful 2. Understand your parents childhood, upbringing, challenges they faced. Again, photographs are helpful. 3. Love, Forgive Love and forgiveness are ultimately the only things which set us free. At 35 years of age I was not ready to believe this, by 43 I started on the path of love and forgiveness. Now 54 I genuinely believe Love and Forgiveness are the only ways we can ever heal

Oliane Roos @gillianm9367 Dear Gillianm. You say that you believe that ‘Love and Forgiveness are the only ways we can heal’ I do not agree with you, but we don't have to agree either. I only feel the need to respond to your reply because the subject of anger and hatred in the healing process is so terribly important to bring to the attention. True healing is often a long process, as you know yourself, in which aspects of the abuse (my definition of abuse is the same as Alice Miller's: Abuse means to me using a person for whatever I want from her, him, without asking for their agreement, without respecting their will and their interests.) are brought into consciousness and experienced over and over again. In time, the anger and hatred will subside. People don't get stuck in their reactive anger and hatred once it has been lived through. Often again and again. But it can happen if one fails to free oneself from the power of the torturer (Alice Miller, Free From Lies) one stay stuck. As mentioned, this is a long process of experiencing aspects of the trauma. Alice Miller wrote that ‘it is hardly conceivable that someone being tortured would not feel hatred towards the person who tortures him. If he does not allow himself this feeling, he will suffer from physical symptoms. The problem is that the more people were abused the more they defend their parents because the fears of the small, defenseless, severely offended child is still very active in them. It holds them in a state of dependency and denial, which I signal in your words. 'The healthy biological reaction to endured pain is anger and not love' Miller wrote ‘and if we try to cover this anger up and to feel love instead we are in danger to lie’ Thank you for your reply and reading this one.